Author Topic: Engine boiling water  (Read 4424 times)  Share 

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Offline Wes#

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Engine boiling water
« on: January 03, 2017, 05:03:41 pm »
Hy guys , I am at my whit s end,  I have just had my ladas head rebuilt, new valves, stems, seals, had it pressure checkeds, all good, have put it together and there is still water getting into the cylinders, the temp gauge is also sitting nearly at the 130 mark which it has never done before. The head gasket is one made in spain, I also fitted a new thermostat, bmw kind. Any thoughts would be good, im about to push the car into a river, never have I battled with an engine like I have with this one.

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Online Ari bezuidenhout

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2017, 08:13:25 pm »
Hi Wes,

Was the block also pressure tested?

Has the head been torqued down properly?

Tighten bolts 1 - 10 to 20 nm

Tighten bolts 1 - 10 to 70 - 85 nm

Turn bolt 11 to 35 nm

Turn bolts 1 - 10 each 90°

Turn bolts 1 - 10 each 90 ° again


My Lada runs on grace from God, and breaks due to my failings.

Online Ari bezuidenhout

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2017, 08:24:22 pm »
Did it get hot first or was there water in the cylinders first?
 
I think you have a radiator cap issue. Your cooling system it not holding pressure therefore the overheating and blown gaskets


My Lada runs on grace from God, and breaks due to my failings.

Offline Spikes

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2017, 06:00:17 am »
I think you have a radiator cap issue. Your cooling system it not holding pressure therefore the overheating and blown gaskets

Ari maybe onto it here. Local rad caps that really fit and seal perfectly are few and far between. If you don't have original one get one and bleed system after next head gasket is fitted.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 06:01:51 am by Spikes »

Offline Wes#

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2017, 02:10:28 pm »
Well one thing that buggs me, I have now read 3 different head torque methods, the one that came with the gaskets says to work up to final tension, back off 90 deg and retighten, one on lada power , first round to 40 nm and then stait up to 119, and now the one Ari has put here. I have tryed the other 2. Ari im going to do it your way with the gasket which is on now, if it makes a difference to how the amount of bubbles in the radiator il bang a new gasket on, atleast I no it a head torque problem. The cap on the radiator looks like oem and is like new, but one thing concerns me, the thermostat from bmw, I have installed it the same way around as the lada one, deflector on to , but is this right, it seems the it opens the other way round. Thanks for the help guys.

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Online Ari bezuidenhout

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2017, 04:10:12 pm »
Hi Wes.

My head torque down method is the same as the lada workshop manual one.

Please post a photo of your radiator cap, top and bottom.

To test the thermostat, remove it.
Place in a pot on the stove with water in.
heat water slowly and using tongs see how the mechanism works? which directions are for hot running and which for cold running.
it should change at 85 to 90 degrees.


My Lada runs on grace from God, and breaks due to my failings.

Offline ronnie

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2017, 04:32:34 pm »
Hi Wes,

I have tried the modification with the thermostat in the top radiator hose and it worked. However, I still prefer the original LADA thermostat. I have had a Niva new out of the box with an air-con fitted and even in the heat of the day in Botswana (30+ deg) using low ratio for hour after hour there was never an issue, so there is something wrong. I would if you can, fit an original Niva thermostat for peace of mind.

Ronnie

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2017, 08:00:01 am »
Hi Wes,

Another thought is that your head bolts may have stretched. Did you measure them, they may be bottoming out.


My Lada runs on grace from God, and breaks due to my failings.

Offline Danie

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2017, 07:35:28 pm »
Hi Wes,

I think you have no option other than to try to determine exactly which cylinder chamber(s) is / are getting cooling fluid into it. You could just remove the spark plugs, let somebody swing the starter, and have a close look at the plug holes. You might be able to see which cylinder(s) are spitting cooling fluid through the plug holes.

Should you be able to determine from which chambers the cooling fluid is coming from, you need to remove the cylinder head very carefully, and have a close look at the condition of the head gasket more or less at the cylinder(s) where cooling fluid has been traced.. If you are lucky, you could be sitting with a blown head gasket only. When the head gasket is blown, unfortunately the cylinder head could be warped (again) , due to the excessive heat reading you mentioned. Therefore you actually need to get the cylinder head checked properly by specialists again.

Hopefully you did'nt add cold water into the radiator soon after the engine overheated - because if you did, you could be sitting with a cracked cylinder head, which could cause cooling fluid leaking into one of the cumbustion chambers. Adding cold water into a radiator when a cylinder head has not cooled down properly is never a good idea - because a sudden change in temperatures can easily cause a cracked cylinder head.

To make 100% sure you are not sitting with a cracked cylinder head, unfortunately the valves need to be removed (again) - and the cylinder head  needs to be checked by specialists again.

Hopefully you do find an "easy way out" to solve this problem - but I think you need to be aware of all possibilities.

Good luck.

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You will never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks  - Winston Churchill.

Offline Wes#

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2017, 10:47:28 pm »
Thanks guys , its cylinder 2,3 that are sucking the coolant in, definitely did not add cold water, just switched off and let it cool, I did check head bolts, had about 5 mm of play.

Pic of cap.




Thermostat, pipe with the bend is to the radiator, currently.



Going to spend saterday trying to get to the root of the problem

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Offline Spikes

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2017, 10:24:46 am »
Genuine lada radiator cap. Note the long reach of the closing lips


Side view


This cap came off my Lada in 2014 when I had the radiator drained and flushed. The cap i replaced it with (from ladapower) is exactly the same.

When you say 5mm play, do you mean loose? That you were able to turn them in? 

Offline Wes#

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2017, 03:24:52 pm »
Ok , if thats the right cap , I dont think the radiator is original, I did put 7000 km on the car with the same set up tho, spikes when I say 5mm , I mean before the bolt bottoms out in the block, I have a feelibg its the head bolt tension thats the prob, I dont think I have tightened it enough, 85 nm and the 90 deg and then again is definitely going to take it over 119nm, im striping the cam out tonight and will update when its all back together, out of interest the are valves from 2 different nissan engins that fit, only difference is about 1mm in length, a certain supplier wanted to charge me 8 grand to bring valves in and I wasnt fast enough to get vinces last set, valve stem guides are perfect tho

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Offline Danie

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2017, 06:13:10 am »
Hi Wes, I assume you installed Nissan valves (inlet Nissan valves from a cedtain model + outlet Nissan valves from a different model ? 1 mm difference in lenght will obviously not be a problem,     because valve clearances can be set accordingly.
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2017, 03:29:35 pm »
Hi Wes, I assume you installed Nissan valves (inlet Nissan valves from a cedtain model + outlet Nissan valves from a different model ? 1 mm difference in lenght will obviously not be a problem,     because valve clearances can be set accordingly.
Hi Wesley, have you sorted the overheating out?

Cheers

Spikes

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Re: Engine boiling water
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2017, 07:28:17 pm »
sounds like head bolts to me, had the same problem on mine, ended up install a thicker washer on the bolts, problem solved