Author Topic: Warning about Timing Shoes  (Read 3724 times)  Share 

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Offline Danie

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Warning about Timing Shoes
« on: July 23, 2017, 09:37:07 am »
To those who do not know yet - a Lada mechanic mentioned something very important at the Ladapower Facebook group. In this mechanic's opinion Lada timing shoes should be inspected after 50 000 km since new.

To my mind there has been proof over the years that Lada timing shoe lifespan is ineed quite limited, and I beleive this mechanic's opinion shoud be taken to heart by all owners.

To date there is no record in this regard, and the local Lada specialists never mentioned anything in public regarding the lifespan of timing shoes. As a result many cylinder heads has been damaged during the years.

I would advice all owners to get your Lada's timing shoes properly inspected after 50 000 km since new. In fact, I would advice everyone to order at least one new timing shoe + new backing shoe when you place your next order. Get your Lada's timing shoe PROPERLY inspected when the new components are in your posession. Rather replace your current timing shoes, this could easily save your engine for another 50 000 km.

Just take note - the engine cover at the front of the engine needs to be removed, and the timing shoe also need to be removed. The timing shoes can only be inspected properly once it's been removed.

« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 09:42:39 am by Danie »
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Warning about Timing Shoes
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2017, 09:45:39 am »
Add the front crankshaft oil seal and the timing cover gasket to the items Danie mentioned. Its peanuts against the chance of an oil leak and having to pull off the front pulley and covers again.

Offline Danie

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Re: Warning about Timing Shoes
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2017, 10:19:58 am »
Thanks Spikes, those seals are also a "must have".

The paper gaskets at the cover in front almost always break when the covers get removed.

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Offline Danie

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Re: Warning about Timing Shoes
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2017, 10:53:14 am »
Spikes, something else - I would also advice all owners to order automatic Tensioners at the same order.

I must admit, I never liked the automatic tensioners because I beleive nobody knows how to "read" them when the shoes are worn. Having said that, I also realized that very few owners know how to "read" a standard tensioner. On top of this, hardly anyone know how to use the standard tensioners correctly. The Service Manual instructions about how to use the standard tensioner correctly are incomplete, and only tells half the story.

Therefore I think it would be way better rather to install outomatic tensioners at all Ladas. If the shoes get replaced every 50 000 km, the automatic tensioners should never cause any problems.

Maybe the chains and sprockets should be replaced at least every 100 000km.


So you have enemies ?    Good.   That means you stood up for something, some time in your life  -  Winston Churchill.

You will never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks  - Winston Churchill.

Offline john.oosthuizen95@

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Re: Warning about Timing Shoes
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2017, 11:25:48 am »
Thank's Danie...for a Lada newbie this info is GOLD...

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


Offline Danie

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Re: Warning about Timing Shoes
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2017, 12:20:00 pm »
No problem John, I think part of the large number of timing shoe failures in the past was also due to incomplete instructions regarding the old type manual Tensioners. The Service Manual only tells half ofthe story. When people "adjusted" the timing shoe settings exactly accordind to the Manual, most owners actually fooled themselves - simply because they haven't adjusted anything.

I think the lack of improper adjustmens in the past accelerated shoe wear, and maybe the shoes will last longer by means of constant / correct tension by the automatic tensioners. Only time will tell.

I'm just glad a Lada mechanic eventually aired his views in this regard. To my mind many Lada engines could have been saved if local mechanics just bothered to answer relevant questions. 

So you have enemies ?    Good.   That means you stood up for something, some time in your life  -  Winston Churchill.

You will never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks  - Winston Churchill.

Offline Spikes

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Re: Warning about Timing Shoes
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2017, 01:26:48 pm »
A link to the FB page with the original article would be nice Danie? I've had a look on the LOCSA facebook page but can't find it there. Assume it's from another group.

Offline marius

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Re: Warning about Timing Shoes
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2017, 01:44:05 pm »
Also can you share your thoughts on how exactly should one adjust the old tensioner and what to look for to avoid trouble?

Offline Danie

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Re: Warning about Timing Shoes
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2017, 04:14:59 pm »
Very simple actually - the tensioner caps need one or two taps with a small hammer once it's been loosened according to the Service Manual OR it needs to be loosened a  quite number of turns when it get loosened.
The reason being - when thesettings are done exactly according to the book, the collets inside the cap often do not release the center pin at the tensioners - therefore the inner spring at the tensioner also does not get released . In short - if the collets at the cap dont loose its grip on th pin, the whole setting procedure becomes a waste of time and energy.

I think tapping the cap with a smallish hammer once the cap has been loosened, is the way to go.

I would advice all owners rather to join as many international Niva Facebook groups possible. Facebook groups seem to have more members with experience, and less B/S in general.

Enough said, rather ask more questions at international Facebook groups -like the Ladapower or New Zealand groups. There are lots of very experienced people there, and almost no B/S.

« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 04:20:46 pm by Danie »
So you have enemies ?    Good.   That means you stood up for something, some time in your life  -  Winston Churchill.

You will never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks  - Winston Churchill.

Offline marius

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Re: Warning about Timing Shoes
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2017, 05:55:02 pm »
I normally adjust the tensioner every 5000kms - also I remove the tensioner completely for closer inspection.

Quite right there is quite a lot of BS out there but one can quickly see through it when you apply a bit of logic and have an open mind.

Offline Danie

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Re: Warning about Timing Shoes
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2017, 04:07:52 am »
Just a final word - I recently put a video on Facebook to show exactly how a brand new standard tensioner actually works. No matter how much a tensioner get inspected, if you don't follow the steps as mentioned above - you are fooling yourself.

Members who paid attention to comments by another two owners at an international Facebook group recently will exactly know what I am talking about.

Again, join international Facebook groups and get informed. There are too many "experts" at this forum who are fooling themself, and caused a lot of confusion in the past.

This is probably my last post at this forum. Life is too short to get involved in explanations and arguments.
So you have enemies ?    Good.   That means you stood up for something, some time in your life  -  Winston Churchill.

You will never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks  - Winston Churchill.

Offline marius

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Re: Warning about Timing Shoes
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2017, 02:35:26 pm »
BTW the hammer tap tip is nothing new...
http://www.ladaniva.co.uk/baxter/resources/TimingChain.htm